Here’s the URL:  http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/johnwyost/orphaned

Kickstarter is a website where filmmakers, artists, and musicians can go to propose projects to potential investors. Except the investors aren’t some rich bankers…they’re YOU. The site is set up to not only involve everyone in the funding process, but to reward you for your financial help. For example, if you go on my page and donate 50 dollars to the film, you would get a thank you credit AND the DVD AND a digital HD copy. You’re giving me the money I need to make the production, in in turn, you get a bunch of cool stuff. The prizes get bigger as the donation gets bigger, but you see what I mean.The only thing is…I don’t get the money..unless I raise ALL OF IT!:-) I’m going to need lots of help.

So…Anything you can give to the project would be wonderful. If you can’t donate financially…I totally understand…maybe donate a moment to email it to a friend who might find it interesting, or donate your status update now and again to remind folks. You never know who might be interested.

THANKS A MILLION IN ADVANCE!

Cheers!
John

Dear John,

Sorry it’s been too long since contacting you, I’ve been a little distracted (I’m so very good a finding distractions). But we wont dwell upon this, as there are more important things to address. I can feel the disappointment and defeat from your last post, Sarasota doesn’t appear to have been a wholly happy experience for you. I don’t really know what to say, except to really encourage you to stick with it.

It is hard to find an audience, one that really responds to your film, as we have discussed earlier in our conversations, the general taste is changing drastically and as a filmmaker with such a specific voice, it’s going to be a tough slug tracking down those people that really connect with your work. The upshot of this is that when they do find you the connection will be really important to them, and I’m sure to you too.

It’s your job right now to just keep working, keep honing your art, and don’t be afraid to pour as much of yourself into your films as is possible… you’ve been pretty good at doing that up to this point, and I know it can be a really taxing job, but I promise you it will pay off.

Sadly there is no time limit on this, you could make a big splash with the next one or it could be years from now someone stumbles across your films and their passion is ignited. I cant help think of Nick Drake (or Van Gogh for that matter) men who went to their graves very earlier, and never saw the full extent of the lives their art would touch. What’s important is the work they left behind and the people who connect with through it.

So just stick to it buddy, I always read with envy about the 70’s filmmakers bouncing ideas off one another, and hopefully we will get the opportunity to do so some day, whether that means I have to kidnap you and bring you here or show up on you doorstep someday.

Until then keep it up sir

ME

Now I’m not so sure.

The festival itself was fine. They tried really hard to make a program with variety and quality. They treated me well and we shared some laughs. Ethan’s family were wonderful. They welcomed me with open arms, made me feel like part of their family, and showed me a wonderful time in a wonderful city. I want to thank them a million times over for a great weekend.

The problem is not with the festival, or Sarasota…The problem is with me. For some reason I just completely gave up after the TBTK screening on Saturday. Perhaps it was the small crowd, perhaps it’s the fact that besides Donnacha no one seems to read this fucking conversation anyway…so what’s the fucking point? This Indie Film thing seems to be a one sided conversation…a “Let me tell you all about me…but fuck what you’re doing” kind of thing. It’s not a community…it’s a shark tank. Now on the flip side…I met some great people at the fest; friends of Ethan that also welcomed me with open arms. AND the positive thing here is to say…”well…5 new people saw the film…so that’s good.” And it IS good to meet new people and have them see the film…even if it is a handful at a time. My question is…How long can you stay positive? How long can you survive on silver linings before you start to question why?

The other question besides who cares is why bother? If you make work that never reaches anyone…is it worth doing? Can I sustain myself on pure self satisfaction? How long does that feed your soul till you just want to go build something solid like a house, or do something that puts some real good back into the world.

How long to you fool yourself into thinking what you’re doing matters at all?

Well? Let me know what you think…if anyone is even reading this. If I don’t start hearing from people…I’m shutting it down…and move on to better things.

John

My film, The Brave and the Kind, is playing Saturday night at 6PM. This film has been a great experience, but it’s reception has been frustrating. Most of the time we (The producers and I) get messages from festivals that say they would show it, BUT, this year the festival needs asses in seats and it’s a risky film to program. Basically true indie filmmaking is being pushed out due to fear of pour ticket sales. I’m sure the folks at the Fringe Fest are feeling the squeeze like everyone else, but maybe it’s time for all of us to ask the question…are film festivals socially relevant and fiscally responsible? In a world so connected do we need a week long place for them to gather in order to be praised and seen? Can we scale back the waste, the pomp, the circumstance, the parties…and still have a good time. Are we willing to give up gift baskets, or happy hours so that more truly independent films can be showcased? I’ve never been to SXSW or Sundance, but from my vantage point…outside…with my face pressed against the glass…it seems that maybe the quality of films are declining, and the sales less relevant. (Feel more than free to fight me on this.:-) I have also watched several really great films go through the festival ringer…only to come out the other end with minimal exposure and film-by-the-pound purchase orders. The festival carrot maybe rotting.

In the 90’s festivals were places that introduced talented filmmakers to the world and your wallet. Now it seems the same old fare is being manufactured to be purchased by the same outlets, on sale to an audience that now seems to demand it’s indie film be as formulaic as it’s Hollywood big brother.

This is why I’m so excited for the Fringe Fest. It seems like a community of artists, getting together to show their films. I’m sure that money is still involved/an issue, but it feels like grassroots. I recently heard an interview with George Lucas about the heyday of him and Spielberg, and Coppola…all getting together and helping each other; critiquing each other. It sounds like a blast. A community of artists all out to make their industry better…instead of the “out for me and my own” motto that seems to be common place. (Although I feel that this may just be an effect of our new world of information and technology.) I think that’s what attracts me to the concept of film festivals. Meeting with folks just like yourself, who want to make and talk about films. My worry is that it may be changing to something that resembles a corporation, not a co-op.

So what’s next? I started this conversation as a way to gauge how others are feeling. I don’t want it to be another place where we all talk about how the sky is falling…and then do nothing about it. I started the blog to hear your thoughts; your perspectives on this new shift. Perhaps by understanding what we all want out of it, we can find a way to steer it. This goes for both audience members and filmmakers.

So let me know…What do you think is next?

Cheers
John

Probably the main thing that jumps out at me is the talk of the independent scene and the references to the mumblecore movement in particular, and it’s something I would really like to talk about here. The term mumblecore is an absolute joke, it is limiting, even insulting to the filmmakers who are part of the “movement” (though I’m sure most of them would deny they are part of any such trend). But it is absolutely undeniable that being under this umbrella has helped the careers of these filmmakers flourish.

I was a late comer to the mumblecore party, I had read about it as some abstract term in magazine and blog articles, but I actually came to it by way of wanting to see more of Mark Duplass after the end of this season’s The League on FX. I actually popped my mumblecore cherry and watched The Puffy Chair the same day I saw Avatar, and I was really blown away by it, who would have thought that 3D characters could trump 3D Glasses? I even did some math to work out how many “Puffy Chair”s could be made for the budget of Avatar, and taking a modest (read bullshit) estimate for Avatar you could have made The Puffy Chair 16 thousand times… 16 THOUSAND TIMES.

I guess that figure is neither here nor there, but what sparked for me was a real interest in these filmmakers, I looked into it a bit more and realized everyone was working on each others projects, and all
these guys seemed to be very busy and a had a genuine passion for being involved in making films… I was hooked. It really goes back to what I was saying before, about looking to find out about these filmmakers
through their works. And when you see that the guy who wrote one movie, is acting in another movie, and holding the boom in another you really learn about who these people are, both from whats to be seen on screen and the behind the scenes details.

My two passions in life are music and film, and it these scenes pop up from time to time, proving to be extremely fertile for the artist. From The French New Wave to the the early 70’s Laurel Canyon music scene, the Saddle Creek scene to the DOGME films, a scene can be a suffocating thing, but it can also
be a really nurturing thing for the right people. People who aren’t afraid to try new things, people who are humble enough to help others out, people who see their contemporaries as friends and not rivals,
people who push each other towards being better artists. Of course there will be bandwagon jumpers and copycats, they show up everywhere, but let’s not let that distract us from true honest artists, and true honest people sharing some common goal and worldview.

Donnacha

Here it is in it’s entirety.

Is your identity at the whim of your authorship?
No. I don’t believe that. Films, while they are important because they can be, still usually aren’t. Most movies, big and small, aren’t about anything of any meaningful value, even on a bare emotional level, which would be plenty for me. Films must be fueled by life, not the other way around. I think this is why artists who become popular artists almost always become lesser artists around the same time. The reasons for making the work change. Also, when everyone says you’re great it must be hard to not believe it yourself…and I do think that the end of strife can be a kind of death on the part of the craftsman. Sometimes. I’m not a masochist, nor am I talking about self-doubt…that’s something else, and filmmakers must have a raw confidence in making their work…but it’s good to hold a kind of humble humility, I think.

Is there a relationship between them?
Well, I make movies because I want to and figured out how to when I was young and started making little stories with the family VHS camcorder. Filmmaking is a part of my life, but probably no different from how going out into the garage to tinker on an old car is the highlight of my neighbor’s day.

Can we give up our personal stories?
If by personal, you mean a story that rings true to the filmmaker, well, I can’t imagine doing anything else, which brings up a noteworthy aside. It’s surprising to me the volume of indie films that are trying to be anything but independent. I know well the story behind two independent films where the makers were steadfastly following the professional opinion book, convinced they’d have “product” in the end that would be a sure fire win. Both films managed to raise several hundred grand in order to shoot on 35mm, both cast SAG (although neither one got anyone worth the value of SAG in my opinion, because none of the “professional actors” employed brought name value to the projects) and, most bizarre to me, both played it PG-13 safe for potential “market value,” (I always thought gross-out, R-rated comedies did best, but I digress). In the end, both films crashed and burned bloody deaths, neither one finding distribution and in one case, not even a single film festival screening. What was the problem? They seemed to know just what to check off the old “to do list.” To me, upon seeing them, the problems were the same and directly visible within the first few minutes…the films had no souls. Fancy talk, I know, but totally the truth. Cookie-cutter nonsense is death for an independent film. With money you can make a small, intimate film (or, as the case may be, a hard-edged one), but not the other way around. The stories must have a personal resonance to the filmmaker, otherwise…what’s the damned point? That’s the land of clueless wannabes for you. I think they should be relegated to filming weddings.

Can we make stories that may have our essence stamped into them, but not always about us? Can we make them on the cheap?
I’ve never made a film directly about myself and wouldn’t want to (and perhaps your don’t mean that so literally), but all three (soon to be four) of my pictures are certainly pulled from beliefs I have, things I’ve seen, heard, grown up around, so I see them as all being consistently “mine.” Now, could I direct an urban-set, big budget romantic comedy and still feel it was mine? I really doubt it. Maybe other genres, but sometimes directors are just whoring themselves…and frankly, I don’t mind that very much. People do have to eat, and if someone can make a living in this business directing movies, well, good for them. It sure ain’t easy. But many are just total hacks to begin with, and we know who they are, so fuck ‘em. As for money, my films have all been very cheap to make, which translates to fast, fast, fast shoots. I’d like a little bit more time to do the actual shooting of a movie some day, but I must admit to believing great things happen when moving forward without time to second-guess. (So do terrible things, but that’s just learning). I think movies should be made as quickly as possible.

At what point are we done with personal discovery when making films? Are we ever finished?
I think the more you think about your work, and more work you do, the more you to realize just how much you’ve been failing at achieving what you wanted to originally do. Identifying weakness and overshot only make you stronger, more confident. But, it’s important to have the guts to look at your own work and decide something isn’t working because you screwed it up. A lot of filmmakers have the tendency to talk about all the things they did, letting the poor points lie with others (actors, cinematographers, sound mixers, etc.) This is pussy nonsense and I try not to do it (although I’m sure I do). The filmmaker must be strong, and part of that is possessing the willingness to take a beating. People will tell you the truth if you ask for it and then don’t get fussy when they give you what you asked for. (Most people when they say, “Tell me what you really think,” and they all say that, really mean; “Tell me how great I am.”)

Do you think filmmaking should be purely an art of passion? Are the awards and praise given to films often the sole motivator for some filmmakers AND ultimately something that taints the work?
I think awards, while they must be nice to get (I’ve never won any), are as poor a motivation to make films as making lots of money or finding fame. Again, as with the level of indie films made for the wrong reasons, I’m continuously shocked by the amount of people who’s ultimate reasons for becoming filmmakers is to make money and\or (usually and) become famous…what’s amazing is that these are the fuckers who always seem to be winning prizes. I couldn’t care less about these dumb-asses and their awful work, but they’re a plenty. I really haven’t been to a lot of festivals, but those places, for the most part, sort of suck, too. Saint Louis Int’l is a good one. Idaho Int’l is another. But most of the time they’re big ass-kissing fests, where the cool kids of the month are treated like kings and queens while the other, not-so-hip characters (the non-award winners) are looked at in an askance way and treated like pariahs. Forget the “friendly indie scene.” It’s no different from the greater movie biz…lots of gossip, back-stabbing, absurd politics, and people who haven’t seen the movies they praise or tear down.

Have we begun to take ourselves way to seriously in film and in art?
100% yes as far as I’m concerned. Most of the films taken seriously I find average to unwatchable. That’s on the studio and independent level. But then, as I’m constantly reminded, that’s just my opinion.

Is our industry doomed to be simply about money and status?
I think kind of so. It was, after all, started as a business and businesses exist to make money. What’s frustrating is the closed mindedness within the industry in terms of what is deemed to be able to make money. Ronald Bronstein’s great little film “Frownland” got a theatrical release in France…barely made it to DVD here. The climate here is one that feeds off of big numbers of an opening weekend. But, I think it’s a sort of wonderful that “The Hurt Locker” stands as the all-time lowest box office grosser to ever win the Best Picture Oscar. It’s not going to change anything, it’s just nice.

Can you make films simply because it’s all you know how to do and still make some sort of living at it?
If this is possible I certainly haven’t figured it out. Long-time ultra maverick filmmaker Jon Jost has been teaching Film at Yonsei University in Seoul, Korea for the last few years and it’s the first “job” he’s ever had beyond just being an independent filmmaker. Clearly he made it work, but I don’t think he’d make it sound like much fun to what most indie filmmakers picture in their minds (Jon’s never owned a home, has lived for months, years at a time on the road, often with little to no money in his pocket, has dumpster dived, etc.) To me, there’s virtually no romance to this industry, certainly not in the work. But, I do feel it’s important to try and make good films, and Jon Jost has with nothing, so there’s that.

Does the audience expect mediocrity because they demand it, or have we trained them to accept it?
The mass public has been trained to like shit. Consider this…When “The Godfather” was released in 1972 it became the highest grossing film up to that point. That’s a 3 hour drama with remarkably little in the way of action, no nudity, virtually no sex, and geared specifically towards an adult audience (not 14-year-old-boys). Now, do you think it’d do the same kind of business today? I don’t. What’s changed? The types of films Hollywood green lights and spends even more promoting, that’s what. The big, Oscar winning trilogy for today’s generation will be the “Lord of the Rings” franchise, (not remotely close to the quality of “The Godfather” if you ask me). The audience who paid money at my current age to see films like “The Godfather,” “The Last Picture Show,” “Chinatown,” “A Clockwork Orange,” “Taxi Driver,” “A Woman Under the Influence,” etc., I fear are fast fading away. A friend of mine recently went to see “Crazy Heart” and noted that he was probably the youngest person in the theatre by 25 years. How pitiful.

Thoughts folks?!

Cheers
John

BUT

Donnacha I think brings up a good point about authorship. The questions I want to ask are: Is your identity at the whim of your authorship? Is there a relationship between them? Can we give up our personal stories? Can we make stories that may have our essence stamped into them, but not always about us? Can we make them on the cheap? At what point are we done with personal discovery when making films? Are we ever finished?

My answer? I think it’s incredibly tough to separate your identity with the things you create. I think when you do you make the shit coming out of Hollywood right now. The most successful filmmakers (for me) are the ones that can balance this and still make a new film in a different genre every time. People that have a core understanding of where they come from, where they are going, and what they want to say. However, it’s often great to see someone tackle something they never have before…putting their identity into it. Your thoughts?

Another thing Donnacha brought up was his interest in the back story. That some folks can be riveted to a story because they see the process of the author coming through in the work. I feel this can be difficult for micro-budget filmmakers. No one knows us, and our process is still being crafted. Often when new filmmakers come into the indie stage to become more well know, their first works hold every key to a great film. After that they start to relay on their own back story to give relevance to their work. Which I think always is a huge bore. (I know…I’m like the kettle calling the pot fucking black..but I want to change…really I do.)

For instance…the film Four Eyed Monster. The film was a break out indie hit due to its constant DIY PR machine and young cast. The filmmakers then make another film about their process filled with hipster antics and melodrama that simply made me hate their efforts on the previous film. My suspicions were confirmed…they were indeed boobs who used people to make a film. Their first feature was alright, but their behind-the-scenes made me realize what clueless hipster twats they were.

A fellow micro-budget filmmaker acquaintance of mine, Blake Eckard, was asked to join this conversation and he declined. Why? He didn’t want to go on and on about himself and his work. (I understand Blake.:-) It’s a bit like some of the newly christened “Mumblecore” folks. Some declined to be part of a New York Times article recently because they didn’t want to feed the nickname. Why? Because it lumps them in with others. Some of those others may make similar films, but they have completely different processes. Kudos to all who don’t want to be lumped in, categorized, or use their process as a selling point.

but I digress…perhaps I’m getting a bit off topic…as conversations do go. What do you think?

Another thought for next time. Do those without a creed tend to constantly need to recreate a struggle? Or are we simply more free to discover without a preconceived superstition or set of rules?

I hope to hear more from my brother-from-another-Irish-Mother, Donnacha…AND working on enticing Blake out of hiding with a few questions about filmmaking in general…not about him.

Till next time
John

So much of directing is simply making choices; Does the scene need 10 shots or 2? Is this location better than that one? Should he be wearing red or blue? But so much of what makes film personal has to do with the choices we don’t even realize we have made.

My initial reason for shooting a low budget feature was merely as a learning tool, and i haven’t forgotten that. (Every film is a learning process, and the person who thinks they know everything is bullshitting.) As it happens, I’m quite proud of the films I’ve done, and I’ve found there is so much more to me than simply creating “learning tools”. I have also found how much of a personal process it can be.

I’m working on a number of different projects at the moment, and it’s only when you step back from them, that you realize there are a lot of common images, themes and ideas. Hand on my heart I didn’t realize I had such an obsession with digging, until I stepped back and took a look at my two latest projects…both have crucial scenes that involve a solitary figure literally digging in the earth.

I was talking to a friend about script ideas, out of the blue he asked,

“Do you hate Dublin city?”

“no why do you ask?”

“Well its just that all of your films seem to be about escaping from the city to the countryside”

It was absolutely another revelation to me,
BUT as I think of it, as much as I love the city where I live, deep in my heart I yearn for some sort of escape. I think filmmakers (or at least the ones I respond to) will always have some sort of personal through lines in their work, no matter how big the canvas they are working on. To me, figuring out what/who they are, can be half the fun of watching a movie. So often when others are bored by plot, I’m riveted because I’m actually watching a mystery; piecing together the clues to figure out who was the strange creature that made this film.
Donnacha Coffey

horseshit…right?! I mean all that certainly helps with production and budget, but it doesn’t tackle the why. The reason we get out of bed in the morning. As a young filmmaker who has found his own way through this landscape, I use the personal stories to establish a style, learn an industry, and relate honestly to a world that is dishonest. I will make movies till I die, for little to no profit, using very personal subject matter. Why!?…because it’s all I know/want to do.

I was watching a semi-typical romantic comedy the other night with Rae (date night!:-) and it hit me why I was so disconnected with it. It was disingenuous. It lacked a specific voice. It was a script put together to entice the idea of love and loss. It felt sterile and manipulative…like all the right notes were played at the right time with a hollow nod to romantic stereotypes. A sociopath trying to fuck with me.

I think that’s why I’ll constantly want to work low budget. You have to work hard to make a genuine story. And you have to want it…it has to be all you want to do in the world despite money and commerce. It’s liberating and makes me whole.:-) To churn out film solely as commerce is to make it a hollow serial killer.

thoughts?

John

We were chatting via Facebook the other day and Donnacha made the comment that it simply sucked we couldn’t just grab a pint together and hash out all the problems and triumphs of indie film. We can Donnacha…a virtual pint. (until the day comes when I’ll be in Dublin again and we can get a real one then…)

That’s what I want this experiment to be. An on going conversation about film, music, and life from some of us on the very fringe of this film culture. The ones who aren’t in the magazines and spirit awards, and studios. The ones working hard to make every dollar count because we simply know no other way to express ourselves. So this is a call…to those of you who read this and have something to say…say it…and contact me with a response…I’ll keep the conversation going. (name5026@yahoo.com)

Donnacha will start it up below…I will follow up today or tomorrow. Welcome to a conversation on the outskirts.

“I’ve never met John Yost, but that is not to say that I don’t know him, because I really feel like I do. We’ve chatted a few times via email, and on Instant chat but not really enough to exclaim that I know him as well as I do. I’m sure many of my friends and family would balk at the fact that I would happily put John up  in my home any time he should be in my neck of the woods considering we have never formally met (offer is still open JY)
I first came across John, when I saw his movie Every Good  Thing to Rust was available for free download, low budget? Minimal characters? Snow? I’m in! I remember watching the movie late one night, and finding myself unable to sleep after,  at last I had found someone  who was in the same boat as me, I had to make contact. So I sent a rather impassioned (verging on the stalkerish) email to him, explaining I too was a filmmaker on the same path as him, albeit a bit behind him in terms of getting content out there, and I waited for a reply. And waited.
I was legitimately heartbroken, I thought I had found a veritable filmic soul mate, and I knew that if someone had sent me such an email I would have been excited to respond, but alas weeks and months on there was no such response. Had  I been mistaken about John?
Well not really, the email apparently got lost somewhere among the vast infinity of the interwebs (well that what John said anyway)  and eventually we got in contact and had a lengthy session of emails getting to know one another, and with the exception of a few minor details I was pretty bang on about what kind of person he is. It’s a testament not only his skills as a director, but to the medium itself if a director can distill so much of their personality into a ninety minute sequence of images, sounds and words.
So circuitously this is what I’ve been trying to bring up here, it is the number one reason I respond so strongly to film. As a kid who spent probably a little too much time by himself I’ve always felt a little different to everyone, so the day I realised there was a hidden code in films coming from the director  was a big day. Your eye starts looking for these messages in every movie, the best directors are able to make them very clear but also hide them to the untrained (or unwilling) eye.
I can never feel alone in the world when I’ve found so many directors who share some kind of sensibilities and experiences with. To me that’s the power of film, if we really want to get down to it, that’s the power of art (whatever the word means anymore).  So where does this (extremely bizarre) need to pour your personality into a film come from? Are we trying to make some document of ourselves, to prove that we once existed? Are we looking for admiration? Respect? Validation? Attention? Or are we simply trying to add to the 100+ year long dialogue that is the movies? ”